Patent of metal core laminated slingshots | The Slingshot Community Forum

Patent of metal core laminated slingshots

Discussion in 'General Slingshot Talk' started by ZorroSlinger, Aug 9, 2014.

By ZorroSlinger on Aug 9, 2014 at 3:52 PM
  1. ZorroSlinger

    ZorroSlinger New Member

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    Person who sells slingshots as Performance Catapults applied for patent ... controversial for awhile ...

    Back in 2012
    http://slingshotforum.com/topic/15288-patent-pending-notice

    Currently
    http://slingshotforum.com/topic/36404-patent-notification-metal-core-slingshot/

    Perhaps, he was annoyed that others have made knock-off exact copies of his SPS slingshot designs, so he has taken this route. Maybe applicable to those that 'sell' slingshots. If you make metal core laminated type for yourself only, I would think there would be no issue.
     

Comments

Discussion in 'General Slingshot Talk' started by ZorroSlinger, Aug 9, 2014.

    1. Toddy

      Toddy Veteran Member

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      This patent is a complete joke imho. A patent is supposed to protect something new and or innovative to give the inventor/creator a chance to make whatever revenue is possible from it. The metal cored catapult is neither new nor innovative. Indeed it has been around for decades. So again imho this would not stand up in a court of law. This is just a case of one makers greed in trying to keep one section of the business to himself.
       
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    2. August West

      August West Veteran Member

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      I am right now sitting on the part of my body he can kiss.

      I will make any slingshot I please and sell it to whomever I please.
       
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    3. Toddy

      Toddy Veteran Member

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      and I have :)
      Edit:- NOT kissed the part you are sitting on lmfao
       
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    4. Cap'n Joe

      Cap'n Joe Guest

      Jim is a man. He has an opinion and a belief concerning his work. Whether or not anyone else agrees with him is irrelevant, he still has his belief, and opinion and he's entitled to them. It's his right to hold them! It's his right to hire a patent attny and clerk and attempt to sue anyone his Lawyer Daggett will oblige. It's his money to spend, but the bloodsucker's constant demands will take their toll eventually.
      And what about those who aren't bound by US law? There's more money out the window...

      I wouldn't do it, but hey, this is the good ol' US of A. God bless him for trying to protect what he considers to be his intellectual property.
      Just imagine if we all laid down and let anybody do whatever they wanted without so much as an argument. We'd all be sore in the morning if it arrived for us.

      Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is about. The same people who want an official SPS crafted by Jim's own hand are still going to purchase from him.
      They will always consider any other "knock-off" to be a "cheap approximation" of the SPS. And those who can't afford his asking price will still be unable to buy one, unless they buy a "knock off." That should be no loss to Jim as those folks weren't going to buy one from him in the first place.
      Mimicry is flattery.

      That and it's just a slingshot. There are folks out there who have discontinued the production of SPS "look-alikes" out of pure respect and lack of ill will. That's noble, but is it right?
      I don't know. I wish Rodney King would drop by. He'd tell us to get along....... for the children and the old people.
       
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    5. August West

      August West Veteran Member

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      I truly wish him all the best, if I did not make that clear, and I will continue to do as I please. LOL
       
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    6. Cap'n Joe

      Cap'n Joe Guest

      As you should! If I had the capabilities, I'd be making them too. Whenever I felt like it.
      Wishing him well doesn't mean you have to agree with him.
       
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    7. M.J

      M.J Well-Known Member

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      I suppose I'll go ahead and say a couple things here since there still seems to be room for a sensible debate on the topic, unlike at the big site.
      First of all, Jim and I are close friends and I've been a part of his "team" since 2011. I saw the first concept sketches of the SPS almost a year before it's debut and I've been involved in development with him since then.
      So, there's that.
      I can tell you that Jim didn't take out this patent to take advantage of anyone. He started making slingshots in the style laid out in the patent in 2010, long before many of us (not here so much as on freaking SSF...) even knew there was such a thing as a pocket slingshot. If there is a slingshot in that style from before 2010 I have yet to see it and I would think with all the uproar and butthurt that someone would have pointed one out by now. Yes, there were Milbros and Zip-Zips and whatnot but those are metal slingshots, not laminated slingshots with a metal core. An entire slingshot, in the boardcut style, with a metal core and scales of some other material. That's what the discussion is about.
      Blast away if you wish but I hope you try to see beyond the knee jerk reaction of "I'll do what I want". The main goal of getting the patent protection was to keep a big company from using what Jim considers his idea and cutting him out, not squeezing money out of hobbyists.
       
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    8. August West

      August West Veteran Member

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      If that is the case @M.J he needs to stop warning us hobbyists.
       
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    9. M.J

      M.J Well-Known Member

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      A patent holder is required to "notify the community", among other things. This is the exact quote from the ssf post:
      I want to encourage those to contact me via PM, regarding licensing, if you are currently advertising or selling a metal core slingshot ( as defined in Claim 1) and making it available for US Sale.
      People who make a bunch of things and sell them aren't hobbyists.
       
    10. lead/belly

      lead/belly Member

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      I could see him seeking compensation if it was a true counterfeit, with his logos, trademarks, etc.
      But from what I read, he want compensation from any metal cored slingshot being sold on the open market.
      The knife industry keeps coming up for good reason. All the folding knife companies make trappers, stockmans, and so on. Most are made exactly the same way, out of the same materials. Never heard of case or shrade trying to milk royalties from the whole market!
      I had seriously thought about buying one of his shooters until I came across this today. Heck he lives just up the road from me, and has even pushed to legalize small game hunting with slingshots in our state. But this is ridiculous and isn't the kind of behavior that I can support.
      If he wants to make more money he should be building more slingshots, rather than trying to milk others profit.
       
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    11. August West

      August West Veteran Member

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      I am sure you are right MJ and he is an awesome man that wants nothing but the best for everyone interested in slingshots. Also the fact of the matter is I should not even be commenting on this as I can not even remember the last slingshot I bought and have no intentions of buying any in the future, especially a slingshot that costs what an SPS costs. Frankly I don't understand those that do, not saying they are wrong, just that I don't understand it. Slingshots are toys that are, and have always been, easy to make yourself that is one of their biggest appeals.

      Again I wish Jim all the best but firmly believe his new patent is worthless and unenforceable, only time and money will tell.
       
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    12. M.J

      M.J Well-Known Member

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      Good enough, not interested in arguing, just wanted to express a point of view. :)
       
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    13. Cap'n Joe

      Cap'n Joe Guest

      Knee jerk reactions, huh? You are a silly person, MJ. Your input and disdain only fuels the rebellion.
      Butthurt? Not even a word! What is that if not a reference to sodomy?
      You are tolerated here, MJ. Don't forget that. You wield no ban hammer, and you can't cover your tracks with deletions or erasure.
      And your feeble attempts to put us at ease by implying that the SSF is less able to tolerate a discussion about something as trivial as, who can or can't make what without Jim's permission, is laughable.
      Y'all just have too many people over there who are not intimidated.
      I know a spy when I see one, MJ, and you is a spy, sucka!
      Go report back to your masters that we are unwilling to comply.
      Tell them, Cap'n Joe says, "I will make what I want until an injunction lands on my table. And I won't ask permission first."
      I sold my SPS because of this nonsense. I bought one from overseas to replace it.
      You can either live and let live, or shut up.
      Your choice.
       
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    14. M.J

      M.J Well-Known Member

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      Ok.
      I suppose if I were a spy it would have been clever of me to try to conceal my identity in some way.
      I've mostly stayed away from this site since I figured it would be unwelcoming and unfriendly to people who still support ssf. It's always good to be right.
      I'm entitled to a point of view and I've said it.
       
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    15. Cap'n Joe

      Cap'n Joe Guest

      Yeah yeah yeah, except you are so far to the left you've gone around in a circle.
      Nothing about you is right.
       
      Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2014
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    16. JonM

      JonM Active Member

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      If I may quote someone from the other site:
      In my opinion, this "patent" is completely asinine ... and to me it suggests a low, mean spirited approach. I will never engage in a commercial exchange nor an informal trade with this individual, simply based on this action.

      The fact that this patent is in place will not stop me from making, using, & selling any particular style of slingshot. I was at one point interested in his slingshots, but since I've caught wind of this it will be a cold day down below before I would buy one, or recommend one to someone. I certainly hope that the drivel of the patent stops no one else from making laminated slingshots. Even if it was put in place to protect him from the potentially larger company out there, good luck with that one. As we all know, there are countries out there that have total disregard for products & make exact duplicates that at least equal if not surpass the original in many cases, & for much less cost.

      I think that we should consider the source, not stoop to the name calling & go on with what we do best. That is making & shooting slingshots, promoting & not trying to hold back the potential of new versions of an age old tool, or toy.

      It's not like he's going to come after everyone on the internet, or at craft shows that sells a metal core slingshot. & if he does.....good luck with that as well.
       
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    17. Arturo Borquez

      Arturo Borquez Veteran Member

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      this patent is completely laughable ... I really don't figure how the US patent office judged "innovation" on something that has been used since 2500 years among worldwide cultures ... why not extend the patent claim on steel, brass, micarta, red oak, white oak or whatever cores ... one of my father's friends made a composite aluminium core slingshot 50 years ago when I was a kid ...
       
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    18. Ted

      Ted Well-Known Member

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      This is constructive input, @M.J . Thanks for speaking up. I think a lot of the anger directed at Jim comes from hobbyists who sell slingshots now and again to help fund their slingshot hobby, and who feel that, armed with this patent, Jim will grab a share of their meager earnings, making it harder for them to pursue their hobby. I suspect that this was not Jim's original intent, but I also suspect his patent attorney is advising him that in order to protect himself from the big companies, he has to also go after the hobbyists who sell even one metal-core slingshot. But I really don't know. More clarity on the exact implications of this patent for members of the slingshot community would be extremely helpful.
       
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    19. Toddy

      Toddy Veteran Member

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      Ok so my own personal perspective....
      I am glad @M.J has stepped up and to be honest I wish Jim were on here to put his own side.
      Debate is just that, debate. So for me the name calling is unnecessary and indeed spoils what could be good conversation.
      I have personally made laminated catapults for years. I have also copied others designs as well as made my own. I have had all of my designs copied by vendors with no regard to me as have many other hobby makers and that seems ok in the slingshot world, but as soon as it occurs the other way round toys are thrown fro the Pram. A little unfair imo.
      I have heard that even young lads have had warning PMs from Jim re making laminated frames. If this is true then I really do not understand his reasoning at all.

      So again speaking personally I would ask everyone involved with this conversation to keep it as a conversation. Heated and emotional is great, but name calling?
       
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