Well, two actually. One, you really do have to angle the frame forward a lot to get the hang of the pfs. I mean to the point of practically not seeing the frame for your hand. As soon as I timidly began to point the frame at the target to what I thought was far too forward I started hitting the target almost every time, right where I was looking. Two, hand hits aren't as painful as I was expecting. I learned this just after I was convinced about being right about number one. I was surprised how far 3/8 steel travels after strafing the web of my hand.
What frame are you shooting? Long band, short band, ammo type? You really shouldn't have to press that far forward. You might be overcompensating for another alignment problem.
I got a couple of the flippin pickles from Simple Shot. Shooting 5/16 steel with 2040 tubes 6.5 inches drawn to 30 inches anchored behind my right ear. I can see the ends of the forks just inline with my index finger. I got cocky and switched to another of the same frame with 1745 same length and 3/8 steel. This one had tabs since I was having trouble with the tubes slipping on the frame. I think I just got out too far due to the tabs and that's why my hand ate some steel. At this early juncture I feel like it's a positive breakthrough but of course would heed any advice given. I'm really liking this style of shooting.
MAJOR UPDATE: the second time you shoot yourself hurts more than the first if it happens the day following the first when the bruise is just starting to ripen.
Damn Johnny! You’re not supposed to shoot your hand! But seriously I hate you are having a tough time with the PFS. I shot my finger with 1/4 inch ammo once when I was learning frameless and that hurt like hell. If you don’t get it figured out soon I could meet with you sometime and see if I can help you.
It maybe the way you are holding the pouch or your release or both. I’m a beginner with PFS too but knock on wood I haven’t shot my hand yet or had I fork hit.
Sorry I can not help you with this style of PFS shooting. It does sound like you have some errors in the technique for tubes, and short draw. I would advise to seek out someone else who shoots in this style for help. I do know that the shorter bands require the right timing of flip and pouch tweak. I shoot PFS with flat bands, and a butterfly length.
I missed where he is shooting tubes and short draw. I’m not sure how much help I can be with that. A different technique for sure.
It's all good. I'm just experimenting with what works. Like I mentioned, angling the fork more toward the target has helped accuracy a great deal. It does bring the importance of tweaking the pouch to the forefront however. I'm stupid so I'm also tough.
I shot regular frames short draw but when I decided to try PFS I looked at the different techniques and long draw with bands looked easier for me to do. Monroe and Arturo helped me a lot getting started in that technique
The first several shots I used clay ammo incase I hit my hand. I figured it may not hurt as bad. Also won’t damage the forks as much if I had a fork hit.
I'll try butterfly at some point but coming from archery I felt like keeping things familiar was the way for me to go. Angling the frame has taken me from a 12 inch circle with 3 out of 10 hits to a six inch circle and 7 of 10. Of course, that is excluding the one a day hand ricochet.
I know what you’re saying. I have some archery experience and shooting with face anchor is much more natural and I am more accurate shooting that way so far. I shot half butterfly with PFS because it’s much easier and a more natural feel in the way the pouch has to be held to make the shot ramp over the top of the forks. I definitely need more practice to get more accurate with that style. I haven’t been able to practice much because of the weather and I’m not comfortable enough with it to practice in the house yet like I do with short draw. I have thought about trying some of my other frames with half butterfly. Shooting that style gives a lot of power with lighter draw weight.
I hesitate to offer any advice and what Joe is describing is all correct. I would love to hear from the short draw PFS guys, but I believe that most of them are not shooting short draw from an anchor point. Most short draw PFS is done with a purely instinctive targeting. The idea of holding an anchor to your face and tweaking the pouch to shoot short draw PFS just sounds like a recipe for trouble. As Joe described, butterfly PFS gives your room to work and much safer. I could be wrong, but still think that pushing your frame hand that far forward is compensating for poor technique. We need a real short shooter to chime in on this. Joe, in reply to your last statement regarding other frames. It took me a while to learn but have come to the realization due to frame width and anchor points, that any frame under 85 mm wide, I will only shoot with butterfly bands so I can get a proper anchor location. I struggle with the Scout LT, Tauris OTT, or similar frames to get a proper anchor. With long bands and the floating anchor, I find narrow frames much easier to shoot. This is a personal preference any may not be the case for everyone.
I was thinking about trying it with the Sparrow. With is narrow fork gap I can’t get a good anchor point with it. I thought it might be a good frame for shooting butterfly plus that’s how Zachary Fowler shoots it.
I'm shooting the pfs much like I shot my longbow back in the day. Sort of a push/ pull motion and as soon as my middle finger touched the corner of my mouth I would loose the string. I guess not really and anchor point but more like a reference point to reach prior to flinging the arrow. With the pfs the motion is the same I'm just drawing a little farther, to a point where my thumb touches right below and behind my right ear. Contact and release bam-bam. I only see the forks peripherally, as I'm focused solely on where I want the shot to hit. The pouch tweak is in my wrist as I draw, and that has not become muscle memory yet. I always kept my wrist straight shooting bows and I fall back into that just often enough to make it memorable.
They way a shot a regular frame is I Hold my head straight up and anchor at the bottom of my cheek bone with the bands right below my right eye. That way I see straight down the bands and can’t get everything lined up. With a frame with a 90mm fork gap I can put the target right on the top tip of the top fork. Then I release. Shooting PFS half butterfly I hold the pouch between my index finger and thumb. I draw back and tweak the pouch and cock my head a little as I touch my check with the band about at my check bone and I can see straight down the bands to aim. When I release the pouch I just release with my index finger causing the ball to ramp up my thumb causing it to fly over the forks. It’s a little scary at first having the pouch flying by your cheek. To line up elevation of your shot you adjust to the point wear the band touches your face. Higher or lower depending on if your shot is high or low. Monroe has some very good information on this this style he can give you. I hope I made some since of this. I’m not the best at explaining in txt.
I shoot PFS frames with tubes and a half butterfly. I rarely get fork hits these days, but my consistency dialed in a lot with a longer draw. I personally think it is just slightly easier to control the correction of either the tweaked pouch or the speed-bump effect used to "sling" everything over the fork tips. Angling the frame does help too, but too much more than a 45 degree angle seems like flirting with pain.
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